PDA

View Full Version : Worst Coaching Job Ever?


gth816f
04-03-2007, 01:09 AM
That was probably the worst coaching job I have ever seen. Greg Oden was unstoppable: 66 FG%, 25 points, 12 rebounds, 4 blocked shots, and many drawn fouls. All this with them passing him the ball down low approximately 3 times the entire second half. Every time he touched the ball, he either scored or drew a foul. But they almost never went to him down the stretch. Instead of going down low to the unstoppable Oden, the Buckeyes jack up 23 three pointers, hitting four of them.

He was also an unbelievable force on the defensive end. But instead of concentrating the other players on the perimeter and letting Oden take care of the paint, they allowed the Gators to take 18 threes, hitting 10 of them.

This is unbelievable. How bad must Thad Matta be?

lonestarjacket
04-03-2007, 01:22 AM
That was probably the worst coaching job I have ever seen. Greg Oden was unstoppable: 66 FG%, 25 points, 12 rebounds, 4 blocked shots, and many drawn fouls. All this with them passing him the ball down low approximately 3 times the entire second half. Every time he touched the ball, he either scored or drew a foul. But they almost never went to him down the stretch. Instead of going down low to the unstoppable Oden, the Buckeyes jack up 23 three pointers, hitting four of them.

He was also an unbelievable force on the defensive end. But instead of concentrating the other players on the perimeter and letting Oden take care of the paint, they allowed the Gators to take 18 threes, hitting 10 of them.

This is unbelievable. How bad must Thad Matta be?

Are you serious? Are you seriously second-guessing a coach because he lost in the Final Two against the incumbent champion with all starters returning?

How bad must the ADs of the NCAA be that they put these lousy coaches into place when so many better candidates patrol the internet message boards.

floridajacket
04-03-2007, 01:25 AM
IMHO, threes were the only real way for tOSU to get back in it. Both in December and tonight, Florida put three big men on Greg Oden at all times. He couldn't exactly just post up and receive a pass. And most of the threes tOSU took, before the very end, we're fairly open. They just didn't go in.

gth816f
04-03-2007, 01:33 AM
If Oden shoots 10-15 and you lose by double digits, don't you think you should give him the ball a bit more? If it turns out he can't shoot with all that pressure, then fine. But when your big man shoots 66% and you shoot 17% from three point land and you shoot more threes than your big man does field goals, that seems a bit silly.

Obviously I'm not saying I'm a better coach than Thad Matta...but it is pretty obvious that Oden should have been getting the ball more. Just because a coach is great and high profile doesn't mean he can't screw up.

77GTFan
04-03-2007, 01:44 AM
I don't fault Matta - Lewis and Butler were good options most of the tournament. I thought his worst coaching error was continuing to let the high screen with no switch or jumpout allow the Gator offense to click. His best move was the press.

I thought Florida played GREAT! This is truly a great team. They defend, run, shoot, rebound, and pass well. I love the guys staying three and four years. Four Juniors and two seniors in the first six - that's the college basketball I like. I like the way they used the screen and decided to let Oden have his points without too much dropping down to double - this is why they defended the three well.

When I think of great teams, they are right up there. Only the undefeated UCLA teams and Indiana '76 seem a class above these Gators. They rank up there with all the rest, IMO.

GT1992
04-03-2007, 03:07 AM
Oden should have fouled out by halftime. I hope he goes pro and doesn't continue to ruin the college game. He plays like Shaq, lowers the shoulder, knocks the defender out of the way and then dunks it. That's not basketball. Besides, he looks old enough to be retiring from the NBA.

GT65_UGA89
04-03-2007, 09:16 AM
How bad must Thad Matta be?

"Bad" enough to finish 35-4, 15-1 in the Big Ten, win the Big Ten regular season and conference tournament, along with the South regional.

In 2006 Ohio State also won the Big Ten, finishing 12-4 in conference and 26-6 overall. In 2005 Matta inherited Jim O'Brien's mess (read 'ineligible' for post-season play) and led the Buckeyes to a 20 win season.

From 2002-04 Matta led Xavier to three consecutive 26 win seasons, won the A-10 regular season twice and conference tourney twice. Xavier went to the Elite Eight in 2004.

In 2001 Matta led Butler to a 24-8 record, winning the Horizon conference and tournament.

That's 183 wins in the last seven seasons at three different schools, with a final four (championship game) appearance, an Elite Eight appearance and three consecutive second round appearances with a mid-major school.

gnats67
04-03-2007, 01:26 PM
I watched the whole game and UF was just a machine. Nothing OSU or anybody could do to stop them.

T'was a dang good game though. Nobody gave up or got stomped.

Oden from Ohio State is scary. Freshman, eh?

Congrats to the Gators. Let's squeeze them in in football before 2025.

gth816f
04-03-2007, 01:36 PM
Okay, this obviously wasn't an attack on Thad Matta's career or body of work this season. The last line was just a little barb gained from reading too much Bill Simmons. I wanted to talk about last night specifically. You can keep pulling up stats of how much success he has had, but that's sidestepping the question: why didn't they give Oden the ball more?

You can say they were doubling and tripling him, but it didn't seem to bother his shooting percentage. Not only that, but look at Florida's big man foul situation: Horford 3, Speights 3(in six minutes!), Noah 4(in 21 minutes), Richards 5(in 20 minutes). It was clear that even when he was doubled their only option a lot of times was to foul him. I understand that the double opens up the inside-out game, but by the ten minute mark of the second half(probably earlier), it was apparent that the threes weren't falling and Oden was dominating, plus the game was still well within reach. When a team doesn't have an answer for your best player, why not keep going to him? Especially when the worst case scenario is a likely foul and free throws for Oden.

Vespidie
04-03-2007, 01:43 PM
I'd love to see our team have an "Oden like" presense on the floor for a season or two. Nothing wrong with a clear out and dunk. Very high percentage shot if you ask me.

GT65_UGA89
04-03-2007, 03:21 PM
I actually thought Ohio State played pretty well. Whether or not making Oden even more of a focal point of the offense probably wouldn't have affected the outcome. They did put up 46 points in the second half.

It just seemed like each and every time Ohio State made a little run at chopping a little bit of the lead away Florida just had an answer. Horford and Humphrey seemed to hit every key shot in the second half and prevented Ohio State from getting any closer than six points.

lonestarjacket
04-03-2007, 08:32 PM
If Oden shoots 10-15 and you lose by double digits, don't you think you should give him the ball a bit more? If it turns out he can't shoot with all that pressure, then fine. But when your big man shoots 66% and you shoot 17% from three point land and you shoot more threes than your big man does field goals, that seems a bit silly.

Obviously I'm not saying I'm a better coach than Thad Matta...but it is pretty obvious that Oden should have been getting the ball more. Just because a coach is great and high profile doesn't mean he can't screw up.

What seems silly is second-guessing with hindsight someone whose collective record indicates his judgement of what to do in ANY given game to maximize probability of success is probably better than yours.

How well did OSU shoot from long range the rest of the season? How do you know when the shots might start falling? If you get open shots then you have to take them. Perhaps UF was preventing the entry pass and allowing the open jumper until OSU proved they could make it. Heck, maybe you could allow for the possibility that UF's skill as a team had something to do with dictating what OSU could do.

If they had tried to force the ball to Oden and it resulted in multiple turnovers then we would be hearing how stupid Matta was for not taking the shots that the defense gave them.

When two good coaches and two good teams meet, then one of them is going to lose. That much is unavoidable. You can always find something to second guess about the loser, but please allow for the possibility that the better team simply won the game. If OSU did anything differently then UF would probably adjust and simply beat them a different way.

gth816f
04-03-2007, 09:56 PM
This isn't hindsight...I was saying this during the game too, and every time Oden caught the ball and subsequently scored a lot of people thought the same thing. I will, however, use hindsight to justify my argument.

In the first half, Oden shot the ball on 10 OSU possesions. Florida only got the ball on four of those possesions. This means that 60% of the time that they give Oden the ball with a chance to score, he either converts for a bucket or draws a foul. Meanwhile, OSU shot a three on 9 possessions in the first half, and Florida got the ball on 7 of those possesions. This means that OSU would convert or draw a foul on 22% of possesions in which they shot a 3(and one of those 2 converted possesions was a direct result of an Oden offensive rebound, and the other was a result of an offensive rebound by OSU, miss, and then an Oden offensive rebound)..

These stats are obviously culled in hindsight, but they are exactly the same stats available to Matta at halftime. It is pretty clear what was working. Now, in the second half, Oden has a shot on only five OSU possesions. Every single one of these possesions results in him scoring or going to the free throw line, and this isn't counting any fouls he drew without shooting. That means that 100% of the time a possesion involved an Oden shot in the second half, OSU scored. OSU shot a three on 10 possessions in the second half; 7 of those resulted immediately in a Florida rebound, and one of the three that didn't was because Oden got an offensive rebound and drew a foul. So on OSU possesions with a 3, they score 30% of the time(20% if not for Oden).

1st half

Oden possesions: 60% success
3 point FG poss.: 22% success

2nd half

Oden possesions: 100% success
3 point FG poss: 30% success(20% w/o Oden)

Part of coaching is half time adjustments. Matta is a far better coach than you or I will ever be, and has far more success than either of us, but it's not like he is infallable. Those numbers are pretty damning, and again, they don't take into account Oden getting a pass and drawing an on-the-floor foul.

ncjacket
04-04-2007, 12:11 AM
You miss the point that they DID go to Oden as much as they could. It's easy to say they should have gotten him the ball more, but FL knew that as well. There was no way OSU was going to win last night shooting as poorly as they did from 3 pt land. Just wasn't going to happen. Giving Oden more shots would not have changed that.

gth816f
04-04-2007, 01:39 AM
I guess I just disagree. When a player is on fire like that, you have to find ways to get him the ball. Especially down low like that, just throw it to him and let him draw a foul. Basically just do to them what UNC did to us last year when we didn't have an answer for Hansbrough. The way he was bringing down rebounds, even if they were fronting and playing behind him at all times(they weren't), it's tough to believe they couldn't toss a high entry pass in to him all day long.

My point is if OSU scores on 75% of the possessions that Oden shoots on and Oden has only two turnovers all game, either you're not going to him enough or you'd better be winning the game. They didn't seem to have a problem shooting from 3 when it was clearly difficult and not working; they should have tried the difficult pass to Oden and seen if that worked. You've got to give your superstar the chance to make the plays.

GT65_UGA89
04-04-2007, 10:19 AM
Still, Ohio State put up 46 points in the second half ...and lost by nine anyway.

They lost, well first of all because they were up against a better team, but also because they had no answers for Florida on their defensive end. Horford and Humphrey made virtually every crucial shot in the second half. On the few occasions when OSU had cut the lead to six, Horford was hitting a jumper or Humphrey a 3-point bomb.

Ohio State could have put up 54 in the second half and still lost.

nedleeds
04-04-2007, 03:14 PM
Worst coaching job ever ?

Um ... not alerting your PG to dribble 5 feet forward to avoid a 5 second call. When you have a chance to win the game. And you are standing 5 feet from him. That sir is 'worst' coaching.

ncjacket
04-04-2007, 05:28 PM
It's the "just throw him the ball" part that doesn't make sense. OSU did everything they could to get it Oden, witness his numbers. The simple facts are 1) FL was a better team, 2) Oden was wearing down and 3) no one player can beat a great team. OSU lost because Oden had very little help, not because he didn't get enough shots.